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"Fact, if don't like it why be here." This is not a fact. God, hahahaha. Where do you come up with these statements. This is more like an excuse and it is very niave. Life is not as simple as "just leave if you don't like it." We all live in the same world. Racial bias or a desire to seek revenge often makes people forget reality and say things as you have said here. The people who park their cars illegally are also showing that they don't like the conditions in China. There isn't enough room for their cars so they break the law. People who walk down the street, three and four people side by side are often doing this because walking this way makes them bigger, gives them more power. These people are also fighting against the real conditions in China and they are being selfish. Fine walk holding hands, but when other people come up behind you move out of the way, be aware of your surroundings. The people who walk in groups holding on to eachother also "don't like" the conditions in China. Perhaps it would be more mature to respect the expats who stay even though they don't like some thingsm, because those expats do have a choice. They could leave. But it is more mature to stay and live your live and make patient complaints when you can. But that is not the issue in the article above. This man simply broke the law. If you don't like him and just want to talk about him, that's okay . . . but you should find a place more suitable for that, and stop using "facts", that are not really facts." Oh my god "if you don't like ti leave", indeed. I am sorry but that is a truly silly thining to say. And it does hsow a bit of racial bias. This country is home to thousands and thousand of expats and millions of Chinese people who don't like many things and complain when they can. Should we all leave? You are confusing crime with healthy intolerance of crime.
Feb 07, 2013 13:20 Report Abuse
You seem to have a very narrow understanding. For you it is seems "black or white": either agree with you and be right or disagree with you and be wrong. But you are not even thinking about other peoples words. You are just judging them based on how closely they agree with you. Who cares about the details of this man's life? Why is that important? He broke the law -- let's hope their is justice. The people illegally parking their cars also broke the law -- lets hope the police and justice system start dealing with that problem. All the people who are seeking revenge against this man are also seeking justice outside the law because they don't trust the law. It's all the same problem. Let's hope someone wise helps them see they are also over-reacting before they do something stupid like this man in the article above. You are not seeing anything but your own anger. Isn't that the same weakness that caused this man to scratch the cars?
Feb 07, 2013 13:24 Report Abuse
The guy lost his cool. We all do. I would hope that he woke up the next day feeling foolish. A psychologist would have a lot to say about this sort of thing, about both the guy who lost his cool and about us, here, commenting on the matter. All of us, all our behaviors - the guy in question and us commenting, are acting within the realm of normal behavior - although I sense a bit of radical thinking on the parts of a few, some that tend towards nationalism and some that tend towards western-centric thinking. But that's all politics. The thing to keep in mind is that the only reason we behave differently, or what we might like to call more correctly, in the West is because of the responsibility we give to our leaders and the responsibility those leaders take and accept for the conditions occurring under their leadership. This sort of responsibility is not present here in China. But that is an ideal . . . and ideals do change. In the words of a well known CCTV reporter/interviewer, Rui Chenggang, the current leaders of China "are the rightful leaders of China" - he was very angry when he said this and acting not at all like a professional, impartial reporter. But the point is that responsibility is held by and demanded of people and organizations differently in different places. How we do so, no matter the place or issue, is also governed by current ideas and those ideas also change. We in the West used to hold others more accountable for their actions - history tells us that with the Clinton Administration the West changed its policies regarding the way in which we once linked economic involvement in China to the humane/rule of law conditions in China. Fairness to both sides of these political equations reminds me that we, in the West, removed restrictions linking economic involvement in China to humane conditions in China because we were beginning to run out of investment and growth opportunities in the West. The fact is, we in the West (I'm not American by the way) are only human and we do what we do,, most commonly, because it is in our self interests, not necessarily our best interests but in our present day self interests. We in the West took the moral high-ground on China until it no longer satisfied our own goals of economic growth. Once we needed China to sustain our own growth we re-evaluated our positions and found ways to justify a new stance on conditions inside China. - a side note, on the rule of law in China. China has, very nearly, the same rules or laws as we do in the west. The difference is the modal value with which these rules are enforced. In the west we say "you must not" do this or "you must" do that. In China the justice systems says you "should do" this or "should not do" that. For you English teachers, note that this is a fundamental reason why our Chinese students have so much difficulty with modal verbs and use "should" as though it meant "must" or "must be". Coupled with this, is the way in which the existing political controls in China adjust the levels at which power is placed. For example, in the West, if you go to a Starbucks and the cashier makes a mistake with your credit card, s/he will have the authority to correct the problem . . . but here in China, commonly, the power to correct the problem is given to someone at a higher position and sometimes reserved for the bank from which the individual Starbucks purchases its banking services. When you ask a ticket seller a question, here in China, the ticket seller will often ask you why you asked the question. In my experience, in the West, if the ticket seller can answer the question they will do so without wondering why you ask. The difference, here in China, to my eye, occurs because personal power is relatively more rare and, thus, when one is given personal power one likes to wield it, to show off that power. This is not something that happens because Chinese are different. This is basic psychology; this happens because people are people. I am not, by the way, a psychologist - I am an observer who employs the good common-sense my parents gave me. To continue: all ideas come with a 'best before date' - in the words of a great Canadian (I paraphrase) "there comes a time when every idea, any idea, each idea is no longer any good to think with." This sometimes happens because the idea, like slavery, is found to be universally unacceptable or because the idea, like refusing to accept China as a partner in global affairs until China cleaned up its act no longer serves to maintain vested interests or someone's favorite status quo. And it is essential to remember, especially for all you English teachers, that ideas are not real, even countries are just ideas - there is no actual line around China or the USA; three hundred years ago there was no America and there were three Chinas; we can touch the ground in Britain or Germany etc but we can not actually touch the country, nor see it (except on a map - which is but a symbol) nor smell it, nor hear it, nor taste a country. This sort of thinking is very challenging for Chinese people, who have a difficult time accepting the universality of right/wrong, good/bad. It flies in the face of all the rhetoric in China proclaiming people from different countries and races to be truly different in some quantifiable way. This same failure to enlist universal themes is, to my thinking, the reason why Chinese films struggle to gain international audiences. Three hundred years ago we all had a king or queen. Imagine a triangle. When we, in the West, wrestled power from the king, we turned the triangle upside down. In China, this did not happen - Mao's photo know hangs on the face of the Forbidden City. In the West, mothers tell leaders how to be good leaders. In China, leaders tell mothers how to be good mothers, and brothers good brothers, sons good sons. Use this same triangle/upside down triangle analogy when thinking about the logic employed in the west as compared with the logic embedded in the Chinese language. The one moves from general to specific, the other from specific to general. The one, deductive logic, allows that the observer can make logical conclusions based on observable conditions - this is the process of science; the other, inductive logic does not so easily permit this. From the time of Plato, we in the West, no longer allowed what are called Dialetheisms - if we see a man standing in a door way we conclude he is taking shelter from the rain or he has forgotten his keys and is actually stopped momentarily as he turns to go back to his car. In China, it is not so acceptable that one draw conclusions in this manner - thus a third possibility is allowed - that the man is neither in nor out of the building. For you students of physics and Complexity Theory, think about how this actually creates another 'space'. You English teachers, think of how this effects learning for Chinese - who believe that "remembering" is "learning" and believe that "study and "learn" mean the same thing. Think of how it is that every time a Chinese person crosses a street they 'learn' the best way to cross this street, rather than applying a few general rules and seeing every street every where as the same - not always crossing at the crosswalk but no matter, employing the same basic notions to any street. To Chinese language learners every example of a problem with an Article ("the", "a", "an") is an individual problem and not simply an example of a larger problem. To my reckoning Chinese language learners suffer from Four - that's right Four primary problems (but that is for another time). Many of our educational facilities in China actually take advantage of so-called Chinese 'thinking' and rather than teaching the man to fish so he can feed himself for life they work to create 'fish addicts', creating a situation where learning is dragged out over a long time, increasing revenue. Hmmm, one day Chinese are going to look back at the role of westerners in the economy of language learning and realize that many of us knew better but did nothing about it. It is difficult for traditional people to accept that history is always owned by someone, and is a story that is told for very specific reasons. Always remember, when struggling with different points of view, that you waste your time getting angry with people who have little education and very little understanding of the world at large. But you will drive yourself crazy thinking that reason can combat views which are the product, not of little education but of education-with-an-agenda, drive yourself batty getting angry with a world view which is the product, not of naivety but, of pre-conceived and politically motivated notions of the world. But this happens in the west too: for example, try arguing, logically, with my Mom about the "nature of mind" or the provenance of human attitudes about god. Culture itself is not real, but is only the set of ideas popularized in a particular geographic area. Now I ask you, what is the reason behind all this interest in and use of culture? Is culture the new ideology of a different 'cold war'? Do westerners in China merely pretend to appreciate Chinese culture because this helps them to ingratiate themselves economically? What is Chinese culture? What is Western culture, and wasn't that western culture created by people from all over the world, including Chinese people living in the West? The political 'vendors' of Chinese culture, the political vendors of any country's culture, would have us believe their culture is glorious and deep and interesting - that may be. But they do not advertise the 'culture' that we see in that country every day walking down the street. When Chinese start making movies about the real China that is when they will have arrived at the same level of 'honesty' that we in the West employ. Not because we are so grand in the West and so honest, but because we have had the freedom to speak thus. We in the West support billion dollar film and entertainment industries airing our dirty laundry, our murder rates, our issues of corruption, our bad cultural elements to the world. From my perspective this extra level of honesty is one aspect which sets Western 'culture' apart from Asian culture. Another point about culture: to me, "culture" always meant "to be cultured" . . . but in the Chinese vernacular culture takes on a different meaning; thus, in China, "culture" is often used as an excuse for being 'un-cultured'. One the other hand, didn't the guy who attacked the cars also use his 'culture' as an excuse for acting in a very un-cultured manner. This use of the word "culture" has now been popularized around the world. And we in the West are praising un-cultured cultures left and right. Is that right or wrong? Is my version of 'culture' better than this new understanding of culture? Well, just look around at what the best thinkers in China are trying to teach the Chinese people. For example, last year the Shanghai Government outlawed the use of "guanxi" (relationships in business) in any stock-market dealing. Yet, many Chinese praise this time honored element of Chinese business culture. But, I say, ask the Chinese folks who have no guanxi how they like having to wait longer for, and often failing to get, a good apartment or to get their child into a good school. The people who have useful personal relationships which grant them favoritism, or aspire to get such favoritism, guanzi is a good idea. The people who fall victim of such backroom dealings hate it. Then there are the few who see through the problems regardless of their own personal position in China. This insight can come from a beggar on the street or from the loftiest of the lofty. But it has been ever so, in the West too. Everything in China is the same as everything every where else. China is merely the land of the exponential and has what we have everywhere, only to a greater degree. Culture is a commodity. What we are doing here in China, when we pretend to appreciate what might be culture but is certainly uncultured, is helping the Chinese, the Chinese people yes but more significantly this increase in Chinese soft power allows Chinese to keep focus away from what the Chinese themselves might otherwise be interested in Changing about China. And all the while our western patronage of Chinese culture, the negative aspects, increase reduced our own soft power and places us in a position of having sold out on the ideas our good Mom's taught us. One day in the future, the Chinese - who are growing ever more savvy, are going to look back and say "hey you foreigner" you knew this or that was wrong and yet you did it. And then there is the issue of how we westerns, business primary, export second rate thinking into China - allowing our business here, for example, to do things which they could not do in our home countries. In my work place I am forced to pretend - for economic reasons, that I appreciate culture even when it is racist, abusive, or slants power in favor of people or entities that would not stand the test of logic, if logic were permitted as a means of determining what is best. This causes my work place to become ever more 'dangerous'. This sort of, when in Rome do as the Romans do is a poor excuse for allowing second rate thinking and it condescends to the local Chinese people, many of who would like to change the very aspects of their own culture that we westerns often patronize. Western companies in China continue to promote managers and give them huge bonuses based solely on increased profit, not on mid-term real growth in assets. This sort of thinking is very nearly outlawed in the West. And we are all buying illegal DVDs or downloading them from the internet. I have been here for over ten years and I am married to a Chinese woman but I see very little Chinese culture. What I see is a sort of 'wanna-be' America. And, yet in despite of this obvious appreciation for and desire to be more western, the powers that be in China continue to fight against so-called western cultural incursions into China. For me it is very simple - I owe my first allegiance to the Chinese people, not to the company that employs me here in China, because legally I am a guest of this country and part of China's opening up and reform program. Thus, every time I allow myself to become part of what the local culture demands I do, against my own best judgment, I am actually selling out on the good lessons my Mom taught me, those lesson that were so highly valued by the Chinese in the first place that they invited me to come here and help them find better ways. I once heard a Chinese professor from Beijing University speak. She said that the reason all nine world leaders, since the fall of the Egyptian Empire, have failed is because they did not create laws and policies within their own country which governed their citizens, business, etc, when those citizens and business act outside the world leader's national borders. Until such time as I am punished inside my own country for downloading movies in China, I have no moral high ground to stand on. Until such time as poor behavior, such as that of the guy who we are talking about here, is punished within the individual foreigner's own country we have no right to moralize about what occurs outside our own country. But, is it important that China is not my country? When you toss garbage on the ground in China are you tossing it in a place that is or is not your country or are you tossing it in our world. But, keep this in mind, regardless of how it is that there seems so much political disagreement, east to west, the very best thinkers in China are trying to copy the laws and policies which we do value in the West. This is my response to anyone who tells me that I am trying to force western thinking on China, when I become annoyed with conditions in China. When I comment on how it annoys me to see two, three, four people in China walking down the street, arms locked so as to create a larger and thus more powerful force (might is right) and I am told by a Chinese "if you don't like it go someplace else" . . . to this I will point out that is the group of folks with their arms locked - because they are trying to fight against conditions here in China, who are, seemingly forgetting where they are. If the stayed mindful of where they are, and had concern for others, they would walk single file down the street or at least be aware of others coming up behind them. I can’t tell you how impatient it makes me when I tap on the shoulder one of a couple or two three four or more people walking abreast here in China and they say, “oh sorry, I didn’t see you.” Well, of ofcurse you didn’t see me. You didn’t look. And worse that that you were actually taught not to look- this is what I mean by the problem with education and learning in China is not just less education it is actually wrong-headed education. But, back to culture. If Ding Xiao Ping were alive today, I think he would agree with me - that as long as any of us live only in our own culture we do not live in the real world. And I thtink he would agree that China was suppose to open up and learn fro the west, not just copy from the west but actually apply some of the generalized notions and universal ideas, general thinking and universalized concept . . . not just take them here and, for political reason or for saving face, add Chinese Characteristics to ideas that worked perfectly well as they were. The real world is a place of no culture, a place where we are all understood to be somewhere between 97.5 and 99.9% the same - meaning, if you will allow me to do a bit of funky math, that culture is to be found in that remaining .1%. Always remember that when we open our mouths to talk or write or when we make a movie or kick a car because we don't like the way it is park we are choosing to focus on how we are different or how we are the same. By vast majority, when we talk about humans, the differences that we think we see are merely illusions created by ourselves – often though vending of different cultures, often through self-promotion and a desire to have “my version of events reign ( a situation much worsened by economically motivated political correctness. Are cats and dogs different? Surely, in some ways but most of the difference is created by us, by the way we understand "cat" and "dog". Remember that the word "pen" is not the same as the thing we use to write with and when I use that pen as a lever to pop the top of a bottle it is no longer a pen. The thing is real, the word is just a name. Good is good if we say it is. Bad is bad to the degree we say it is. Have you read the book,"The seven Songs That Created the World"? Or have you ever noticed that there are only six stories in the world. The time, the place and names that change, but a love story in China is the same as a love story in Britain or France: 1949, in China, New China is 'born' . . . old China 'dies' . . this is a being born and a dyeing story like any other, with a ‘mother’ a ‘father’ and ‘children’ . From other perspectives the same set of event are war stories, or friendship stories, or love stories. As an English teachers I teach an international form of communication. I do not teach native English. Indeed, some forms of native English - Cajun English, English from Newfoundland, Cockney English actually fail the test of international communication - "use of a language that is understandable by the greatest number of people who do not share your culture." We teach an international form of communication, thus, I too, a native English speaker, must adjust my native English, make it more international when I speak to someone not of my culture. This is fairness. Remember, it is only a matter of historical coincidence that native English speakers generally make the best English teachers; it need not be this way. And if we teach the students how to fish, they will one day teach themselves: good teacher should strive to teach themselves out of a job. So, let's all do ourselves a service and rather than focusing so much on culture, let's try to remove culture from our communication. Let's try to see culture for what it is in the modern world. Culture is lovely. I enjoy mine immensely and I would hate to insult anyone else’s. But nothing angers me more than someone using their culture as an excuse for being uncultured. By and large, Culture is a market driven commodity and here in China it is often co-opted for political reasons. If I was Chinese this would angry me. As a foreigner I try to approach these matters with empathy and the viewpoint that "there but for the grace of 'god' go I --no I am not a religious person. And I am not being radical. I am being realistic and factual. This man broke the law; we cannot examine his action in the context of being intolerant of culture or local conditions because many Chinese are also intolerant of local condition – either knowingly when they too complain about bad behavior or unknowingly when they walk down the street in groups as to gain power from numbers because they don’t wish to tolerate the local culture. This man committed a crime, it makes no difference that he is a foreigner nor any difference that he is a good or bad man in his personaly life. And there are vast numbers of Chinese people, good ones and bad ones, everyday committing low-level crime in China and calling that “Chinese culture.” I like to think I am being very down to earth and very simplistic in my thinking.
Jan 18, 2013 18:50 Report Abuse
A lot said about many things. Pity this site reformats things into one huge jumbled mess that makes it extremely differcult to find the points. I'm sure EChina knows best. Of course that is one of the arguements. Having the right to stand for something that one believes in, fighting for that right as all the checks and balances have failed on an epic scale. I am fine with how things are, if, that is how they are meant to be, but laws are made and passed and those that are above the law do not have to live by them and that is one thing that i will never stand by and allow. This goes against the communist system and is akin to something that only kings and queens and corporations want the masses to fall behind. Many people have fought and died to bring down tyrants. The Greeks stood together against a rule they did not want. India and the USA got independence as their rulers were not playing fair. A man in '89' stood infront of tanks and changed the course of history. He did it as he was not happy with being bullied and having people mess up his city. He is one of the most famous people in the 20th century that no one will ever know. Those that fall back on culture all the time, are kind of like saying "I know because i am a guy/girl". Isn't it just about telling the truth and doing what you said? I think so. Enforce the laws or idiots will do idiot things!
Jan 18, 2013 23:12 Report Abuse
Yes, not your country and yes, many Chinese people still need to learn best ways but that is not the issue here. Have a look at http://www.chinanews.com/shipin/2013/01-14/news159009.shtml and think Mr James Hale owner and webmaster of dalianxpat.org did this to over 10 cars. Would this be acceptable to do in your country? As owner and webmaster of that foreigner website should he not set a better example for those gullible people who use that site?
Jan 18, 2013 12:25 Report Abuse
Just a thought or maybe more an observation. If it was anti Japanese, it would be fine and nothing would happen. As for people saying it is not "our" country. I guess we should ignore everything every country has ever done and we should all go back to where we came from. That would include Han, that have moved around. The Pharaoh was clearly hard done by and just doing his job. Germany should have been able to do what they wanted in the 30s and 40s. Japan was just expanding it's country. USA is just invading others to protect itself. Britain just expanded it's Empire to continue growing and keeping that GDP up. Blacks should still be slaves in America, as it isn't their country. People in China should be able to flaunt, any law if they have the money to do so. Bring back Feudalism! Bring back Feudalism! Bring back Feudalism!
Jan 18, 2013 15:41 Report Abuse
This issue is not anti any nationality, this is anti criminal acts conducted by what must be a person with a sick mind. This particular offending is not acceptable in any country surely? To make matter worse, on his website he said he had been "attacked" and that it was all to do with Chinese seeing a foreigner and trying to get money off of them. Many foreigner friends in Dalian are scared now that they will be targeted for bad things by local people who can not see justice done against this idiot. Please don't try to cloud the issue with other silly nonsense!!!
Jan 18, 2013 16:11 Report Abuse
nonesense. Are these drivers going to get 6 points on their license? I bet they won't. Will the police do anything about drivers that break the law. I bet not. I was walking to a crossing in Shanghai and had to go around the crossing as cars were parked on the crossing and the footpath. Also more were parked on the corner and also double parked. Why do I think police won't do anything, I saw two of them walking by it all and ignoring the fact that there were about a dozen violation going on at once. Laws mean nothing and the lack of police attention is to blame. Either they have to do something or people will keep on taking the law into their own hands and yes, crazy car keyers like this will come out of the wood work. I repeat, that i wouldn't key a car unless it hit me but crazy is as crazy does. Your call, apologises. Pathetic. Excuse after the fact.
Jan 18, 2013 17:50 Report Abuse
oh dear, maybbe China full of people who can not cope with China? But unless you know situation here Dalian, maybe you should not be making such comments about Shanghai? Please don't be like this crazy Dalian guy, I am sure you will not want to risk bad things happening to you too??
Jan 18, 2013 18:22 Report Abuse
It is a tough question, no matter how polite we are, how much we show a better way to behave - the truth is it is not our country, they (most Chinese) have no pride in their environment, the throw rubbish down on their own streets, they obstruct roads, pathways and roads because they are too lazy to walk five minutes from a more sensible parking area, the write over anything with telephone numbers to obscure criminal businesses, every elevator is vandalised. It is their country - no pride only nationalism.
Jan 18, 2013 10:49 Report Abuse
Yep. Best to never fight back. Not our place so not our problem. What a pathetic generation of humans we have all become.
Jan 17, 2013 17:12 Report Abuse
It is criminal behaviour!!! He may did something worse than this all the time... I do not think we need such a person in our country. He went to Police Station but we did not hear what happened? Why was he released?
Jan 17, 2013 10:43 Report Abuse
The amount of times I've wanted to break off wing mirrors! Of course, this guy didn't do the right thing, but I understand 100% the frustration he was feeling at that point!! Crimochina makes a well reasoned point, but the selfishness in this country has got to stop!! Each subsequent day I live here this one phrase rings truer in my mind; "the Chinese don't give a crap about anyone but themselves". So what do we do? Obviously assault isn't the answer. What about leaving a politely worded letter under the wiper explaining the folly of the situation and requesting better behavior in the future? No, we (foreigners) just aren't going to change them (Chinese), so either two options; learn to live with it, or get out. For me it's going to have to be the latter. Leave these mothers to their own mess. peace out.
Jan 17, 2013 07:55 Report Abuse
This offender is the owner and webmaster of the dalianxpat.org website... not a good look. Will he be barking and chasing cars next? Do we need this person in China?
Jan 17, 2013 10:18 Report Abuse
I agree that cars and motorcycles on the sidewalk are annoying, but to damage other peoples property is moronic. It is this kind of behavior that puts all foreigners in a bad light, and we don't need to be in the spotlight any more than we already are.
Jan 17, 2013 07:43 Report Abuse
As much as I hate the lack of traffic and parking rules and get rather annoyed at exactly what upset this guy in Dalian I have to agree with crimochina. You are a visitor in this country and you can't take the law into your own hands. Walk on the road like the rest of us idiots have to.
Jan 17, 2013 07:42 Report Abuse
Anyone voicing support for this needs to have their head examined. This is China, they make it very clear that this is not your country. They make it very clear that this can never be "your" country. So we have no right to take it upon ourselves to enforce China's laws. China has choosen not to enforce many of their laws, that is their perrogative. How would you like it if chinese went to america and started scratching cars of people smoking pot, or confiscating people's dope. Right now you're thinking he would/ should get his ass kicked. the same holds true for this moron. i hope he doesn't get to see year 13 in China. edit: we must all consider the ramifications of our actions. he has been in china for 2 years without a job. many others like him (who are in the country legally, but not needing a job) will suffer tighter restrictions and scrutiny.
Jan 17, 2013 05:15 Report Abuse
I don't know. I guess I see it all very simply. It's crime. To say that this one man was trying to enforce Chinese laws opens the door for discussions that end up being about race and politics. He broke the law. And on the other side of the coin I've read posts from local people, well meaning Chinese folks, who actually support crime that was committed against this guy as revenge for what he did -- primarily because they felt he might escape justice. So it does seem that Justice is the only issue referred to in this article. I'm not sure that there is any value in seeing this man as any different from those who sought revenge against him or different than the folks who illegally parked the cars. Sure, if you don't like him and what to blast him on the internet, I get that. But . . .. In any case, I take your point about China not enforcing it's laws. That is the real issue. I just don't see why we need go beyond the fact that this guy broke the law. Why enter into a discussion that groups his CRIME in with INTOLERANCE for local conditions. Intolerance for local conditions is often felt and expressed by Chinese and Foreigners alike, yes? If you group crime with intolerance then it seems we then allow everyone, Chinese and foreigners, to make excuses for crime. And wouldn't that include excusing the illegal parkers too. And if you examine only intolerance from foreigners what about the folks who walk down the street in groups in order to push their way through crowds. You can't make intolerance for local conditions a foreigners compared to Chinese issue. These folks, in groups walking down the street, too, are being intolerant of the local conditions, and they are taking actions, some might say bad behavior, in order to overcome those local conditions. But the point, it seems to me, is are they breaking the law or not, and if so are they punished? Well the groups of Chinese, or foreigners, walking down the street are not breaking the law (to my knowledge) but they are being intolerant of local conditions. So there truly is a line between crime and intolerance. Intolerance can be good and very productive; it can also be bad and unintentional. CRIME is always bad, or certainly it is very rarely good. But if the action is not a crime but intolerance by a foreigner it seems really dangerous to group intolerance with crime just because the person involved was a foreigner. It just seems much easier to look at this car scratching guy as a criminal. And then when a Chinese guy lays on his horn because he is intolerant of local conditions or when a foreigner gets upset at someone jumping the cue we need only look at the value of the intolerance. There is no issue of crime. I am sure their are hundreds, maybe thousands, of Chinese people in China, every day, who over-react to crime and commit another crime as vengeance or stupidity or our of bad character. But it is still just crime and how are they different than this guy? Certainly, we all have to be aware of the ramification of our actions. But if you suggest that this guy has, somehow, or I have, as a foreigner a duty to worry that my actions may have ramifications for all foreigners then aren't you just adding to the racial, political, and cultural divides? I think yes. And, if it were the duty for one foreigner to be responsible for all, then couldn't I hold any one Chinese responsible for all Chinese. That would not go down well. But, in fact, a lot of people do that (and given the type of government in China, a socialist form, where it is the group and not the individual that is empowered, wouldn't it be understandable if some did -- that would be like simply accepting the duty-to-the-group version of China that Chinese people support, yes?). As well, if one foreigner is to be responsible for all, should we then enact laws in our own countries so that a foreigner acting out abroad could be penalized for damaging the reputation of all foreigners -- don't get me started on that, because in a 'funky' sort of way, when it comes to crime -- not intolerance, I think we should be held responsible in our own countries for actions that are crimes in our home countries but are tolerated in other countries (difficult to enforce, but I could use pirated movies as an example). And should Americans then only be responsible for Americans, and Brits for Brits, or all for all foreigners responsible be. And who defines what a foreigner is -- it isn't always so clear (200 years ago, the Madarin Chinese word for "foreigner" might be used in Beijing to describe someone from Shanghai and Chinese. And Chinese,perhaps other nationalities too, commonly refer to the locals as "foreigner, even when they, the Chinese are abroad and are themselves the "foreigners"). Just to be clear, I don't support any of those point I just made. But for me, what I described is the logical, and very complex outcome of looking at this incident as anything other than a man acting out because he felt their was an injustice and then he stupidly took the law into his own hands. It is a crime, and the quotes and comments in the articles suggest that the people involved understood there was an issue of weak justice. But the man's actions are still a crime. Period. It's just that, for me, this example in the article above is not in any way different just because this guy is a foreigner. It's all crime and if you excuse him and group his actions into intolerance for local condtions or if you give him additional responsibility because he is a foreigner the real problems get ingrained even deeper: no one looks at the issue of weak justice and the focus turns to racial bias. I worry that foreigners in China who support the view that we should patronize Chinese culture, by making these distinctions between Chinese and foreigners, are actually patronizing aspects of Chinese culture than many Chinese people want to change. Personally, I am very invested in this country, married and I have a company. I choose to think that the good people of China will win out and no matter what one angry man does they are not going to over-react in any permanent sense. I see stricter laws all the time in China but mostly those changes are simply bringing China in line with international standards and closing loopholes. And if the Chinese do over-react, well, let's wait and see and if they do we can call that racial bias/stereotyping. I am smiling a bit at myself, Crimochina, because I wiil certainly understand if you call me naive. But I have to live as a hopeful man believing in a hopeful world.
Feb 07, 2013 19:54 Report Abuse
Well done that guy. Scratching I don't know about that, but kicking in the doors as you walk past seems fine. That way you are just trying to push the cars out of the way.
Jan 16, 2013 19:28 Report Abuse
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