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If you had actually read my previous posts I commented that I don't agree with what he did. I was just saying that some people in the world live vicariously though others. If it was my car of course I would be pissed off, but maybe next time they will park where they are supposed to park; probably not. Also, his actions remind me of a few individuals, non Chinese, that would do this kind of a thing. They don't though, but it's interesting that someone finally had enough to do something about it; hence why it was news worthy. I think that he could have been a little bit more creative though in getting his message across; not with violence and destruction.
Jan 21, 2013 14:40 Report Abuse
I have a question for you Guest 7816. Guest7816 wrote . . . "In my opinion, one man should not wield so much power that he could split, destroy, or kick out members of the community and what it represents based on his social behavior or worse. It is my belief that when this is all said and done, some good people will step in and bring friendship and constructive structure and that this kind of thing will eventually be forgotten. It is in this way, whether we sign in as a guest or as a name all can recognize, is unimportant in my opinion." I just now noticed that you had written this. I too have been a victim of this sort online power wielding. Question to you GUEST 7816: is that what is going on behindthe scenes of this discussion? Did I step into the middle of this sort of thing and then I, naively, thought this was a serious conversation? I mean, some folks are serious, but I am gathering now that there is more going on here than I realized.
Jan 20, 2013 22:27 Report Abuse
Look, folks, I am sorry to have taken up so much of your time. But let's face it we live in a world of 'sound-bites' and twitter talk of 104 characters, do you think perhaps that has done something to effect your patience? Just a thought. AND,I ,personally, like to be productive in my discussions and not merely become involved in GOSSIP or naive POLITICAL arguing, foreigners against the Chinese, as one writer but it. I was doing my best to help us all find common ground. But maybe that is a very unpopular thing these days; perhaps seeing eye to eye is very old-fashion.
Jan 20, 2013 22:11 Report Abuse
The guy who scratch the cars wants Chinese people to follow Chinese laws in China where there is no RULE OF LAW. As well, in my comments, I spoke about modalities - "should" here in China" as compared to "Must" in countries that accept the RULE OF LAW. ANd I comment on how understanding these different modalities can help us all communicate ACROSS CULTURES, and thus avoid confusion (and name calling) as is happening here. And I spoke about the common misconception, held my many people and particualrly common here in China, that it is possible to govern foreigners in your country by asking them to follow your CULTURE - this is not possible, and until China deepens its regard for the RULE OF LAW, foreigners will continue to be confused about the value and power of Chinese laws/legal System and Chinese people will continue to have the wrong-headed idea that foreigners can be 'trained' to follow the local culture. My purpose was very simple - to take this discussion out of the realm of gossip and politics.
Jan 20, 2013 22:09 Report Abuse
And how is it not pertinent to make sure that this discussion continues with a clear understanding that in China, within the ideals of Communism, there is no such thing as LAW. There my be laws, but those laws, in China, are always secondary to the traditions of Chinese CULTURE and COMMUNIST Ideals. It is because foreigners do not truly understand this when they come to China that they become confused. I don't mean this guy who scratched the cars, he sounds like a troubled man by any one's standards - as I said earlier, he is a man who is usiung his CULTURE as an excuse for being UN-CULTRED. On the other hand, all the leading thinkers in China are doing what they can to encrease the power of RULE by LAW here in China. And I gave examples of that - tax laws etc. I simply thought that this discussion needed to be grounded by a bit of simply background. That I wrote at length is merely a reflection of the fact that I know most people who discuss such matters online are not really aware of the difference between the RULE OF LAW and laws/legal system. Now, I was fully prepared for comments, such as those from MeiMei, comments that come from people who are not really prepared, or perhaps are not equiped, to see these issues in a broader context. But please don't tell me that I was speaking randomly. I was actually speaking very logically and on point. There is nothing random about anything I wrote. See, this is what happens with online discussons . . . people end up talking about the talkers and not about what they say. That is very negative and a waste of internet space - at least in my opinion. What I mean is, I anticipated that some might think I was 'stealing their thunder' by removing this topic from the realm of GOSSIP and POLITICS. But I was not "random." I used valid examples that you will encounter in any first year law or logic program - examples that look at the fundamental five words of LAW (is, not, necessary, permitted, reguired); examples that look at murder in Nazi Germany, etc, examples that help us understand there is a difference between the RULE OF LAW and laws.
Jan 20, 2013 22:08 Report Abuse
As Guest 7816 points out this as not a random incident and neither are my comments random - what's with all the name calling guys. Why are talking about each other. My comments were long, Lago, for the very reason I mentioned, because the discussion had become merely GOSSIP and POLITICS. I'd really like to continue this discussion but I really can't see how I am off the mark by suggesting that the man who scratched the cars wants laws to be enforced, here in China, according to the same procedures and to the same standards that laws are followed in his own Culture.
Jan 20, 2013 22:02 Report Abuse
This is not a random incident caused by a guy whom is regarded as an upstanding citizen of the City of Dalian, which is why I think this is not meandering away from the topic. This man has done many, many, things to many people and anyone whom don't stand by his side are subjected to punishment that some might consider childish or worse. Those whom have sympathy for him should understand these things. The reason why I choose to post as a guest is that I feel that the Xpat Community has good people and that when this is all done, it would be really nice to see a reunification of those whom were divided by the recent spat between two website bosses. In my opinion, one man should not wield so much power that he could split, destroy, or kick out members of the community and what it represents based on his social behavior or worse. It is my belief that when this is all said and done, some good people will step in and bring friendship and constructive structure and that this kind of thing will eventually be forgotten. It is in this way, whether we sign in as a guest or as a name all can recognize, is unimportant in my opinion.
Jan 20, 2013 21:24 Report Abuse
I didn’t admit this in the beginning but the first post ‘solhace’ wrote was too long, convoluted, and had nothing to do with the article; I stopped reading after a while. After vaguely looking at their next post in response to ‘meimei’ (after my post) I have to agree with ‘meimei’ that solhace is just writing to much randomness that is irreverent and I couldn’t bear to read any of their posts thoroughly. Back to ‘meimei’, I realize that this guy in question might be a pervert or whatever. This isn’t acceptable but this isn’t topic and sadly I will agree with ‘solhace’ comment at 18:25. ‘Guest’ is back and once again proves to be what I previously stated. Sorry for my absence I was visualizing all of the potential vandalism that could be done; sarcasm. For ‘guest’s’ account on getting your head examined I don’t promote vandalism but realistically most people get some kind of idea in their head and fantasize about things. It’s a fleeting thought but most civilized people don’t act upon impulses; in a ‘non-handshake’ bureaucracy you go to jail if you act on your illegal impulses. As a law-abiding citizen of the world I don’t know these three individuals from Dalian that are wreaking havoc on Dalian. It just seems that the conversation went a little bit into gossip in regards to ‘meimei’ as ‘solhace’ commented on. The deeper issue is why do these foreigners not get kicked out of China? If this happened in a first world country they would have been deported a while ago. Yet, they are still here, and here inlays the problem, which is funny because it is something that the guy who scratched the cars is trying to get rid of. Lastly, how clique ‘visitor’, “a visa is a privilege.” While opening borders can bring in bad, it brings in more good. Be grateful that there are opportunities for Chinese and foreigners both to work together and to create a beneficial synergy. Wasn’t there an article recently stating that most wealthy Chinese want out of China? Check yourself ‘visitor.’ I deal with most Global Fortune 500’s C-Suite individuals daily and the local Chinese have studied or lived abroad EXTENSIVELY. Maybe you don’t own a Ferrari, but without Italians there wouldn’t be Ferraris in China. You can always go to North Korea if you don’t want foreigners and cut yourself off from the world again.
Jan 20, 2013 20:07 Report Abuse
Thanks for your time folks. I have no interest in getting into arguments. And I truly dislike folks who are merely working at creating their 'uploaded' online identity (more on that PREVIOUSLY :)LOL I do have a great interest in seeing the real issues. But, before I go, MeiMei, my apologies to you if I have 'stolen your thunder' . .. and my aplogies to anyone else who did not appreciate my efforts to place this car scratching incident into a real context -- I certainly did not intend to lecture anyone: I think if you read my comments you will see that they are pretty fair-minded. But please, MeiMei, stop calling people names. That sort of thing is one of the most disagreeable aspects of online communication - because people are faceless here online some folks feel free to say stuff that they wouldn't say otherwise. Oh, and MeiMei . . . just think a moment about what you said, about how this issue is "serious to you folks in Dalian" . . . when I see that you have written this I want you to realize that the issue is not just serious to you folks in Dalian . . . it is a serious matter, or should be a serious matter, to all of us, everywhere. Let's try not to be selfish. And you will notice that I will not likely feel the need to write so much now . . . but I felt it was certainly necessary to place this car scratching incident into a real contect of CULTURE and LAW and remove all the POLITICS and GOSSIP. Again, thanks for you time guys
Jan 20, 2013 19:51 Report Abuse
Oh, and listen there Guest 7816, I have no problem with people who offer their comments as guest or choose to remain anonymous. I mean, don't we do anonymous surveys? Has anyone heard of the Dessiderada, perhaps the most famous, and yet anonymous, set of moral guidelines we have in Western culture. And if you guest out there who wish to comment are criticized by a westerner you should feel very insulted, especially when most of us westerners enjoy the right to vote ANONYMOUSLY.
Jan 20, 2013 19:40 Report Abuse
I hear Guest 7816 . . . and I have just been blasted here by MeiMei for taking a great deal of time to do my part to see that this incidnet of the guy scratching the cars is looked at within bigger issues . . . because other wise it is just gossip. My point throught, what MeiMei referred to as my "verbal diarhea" has ben that we are never going to truly see the real roots of this sort of problem if we keep looking at such things as though they happen in a vacum. The guys scratched the car because of different understandings and concepts about CULTURE and LAW. THe guy who scratch the cars, wants China to enforce Law according to his culture's understanding of what Law is - so I tried my best to give an internationally recognized definition of the Concept of Law, as compared to what we mean when we talk about particular country's laws and legal system.
Jan 20, 2013 19:35 Report Abuse
I am shocked and amazed that people are still writing comments about how they dream they were this guy, breaking off mirrors and scraping cars and doing other crimes. No doubt, these people are probably Dan or Scott or Mr Hale himself. In the long run, if you wish to be the one committing a crime, you really need to go get your head examined. And again, noone held a gun to anyone's head and asked people to come to a place not their own and say "I dont like his, that is wrong, why cant it be like what I know from home?" and many people seem to forget that a visa is a privilege.
Jan 20, 2013 19:03 Report Abuse
Okay, MeiMei . . . I hear you, you are not really interested in discussing the matter. You are more interested in light gossip. Okay, that's okay. But, just to be clear . . . EVERYTHING I have written here deals with CULTURE and the LAW. But maybe you prefer to talk about how this car scratching guy flirts with other people's girlfriends . . . is that really a valid topic for discussion or isn't that just gossip. Again, MeiMei, if you took the time to really read what I have written you will see that I gave a pretty good commentary on differences between Chinese and Western ideas about CULTURE AND LAW. Is the issue here not about CULTURE and LAW. When I see someone write that disobeying the Law goes against Communism . . . isn't it correct for me to point out that Communism does not actul include the concept of Law?
Jan 20, 2013 18:25 Report Abuse
Sidewalks don't work in China. Sidewalks were not created for such an over-populated country as China. History tells us that it was the automobile , as a technology, which allowed the development of modern cities. But Chinese cities are not designed for automobiles. China is filled with such contradictions. At the gate house of my community, at night, there are three guards on duty. They have many video monitors to watch the comings and goings in the community. However, every night, in order to squeeze in a few more cars the guards allow tenants to park their cars in front of the camera positions and thus the cameras become useless. So, though out the night you can see the guards chasing down cars that have entered the community un-monitored. Could anything be a better example of the poor decision making that happens in this county. Could anything be a better example of the poor trade-offs that are so necessary in a county that does not try to find solutions for its problems but simply copies ideas from other countries and then adds Chinese characteristics. So, in this example we have security with Chinese characteristics . . . which just creates MAMA HOHO. But I call this accidental introduction of MAMA HOHO (carelessness) But, on the other hand, there is also intentional introduction of MAMA HOHO . . . see, a lot of this bastardization of good ideas by the introduction of Chinese characteristics is about, false pride. Many Chinese do not like to simply accept that an idea is a good idea and need not be changed for the Chinese conditions . . . and so, sometimes, a perfectly good idea will be introduced into China but then changed to reflect Chinese characteristics simple so that someone can say it was a Chinese idea. China, Chinese people need to start finding real, China based solutions for China. This will only happen when the people here become truly honest about what is really happening, and truly take a good look around at what is going on. When this happens the triangle I mentioned will finally be turned upside down and ideas will begin to come from the ground up, not from the top down. Top down change is about communist or Marxist ideas of social construction. But real social construction come from the mothers who tell leaders how to be good leaders not from leaders who try to tell mothers how to be good mothers. Hmmm . . . more on this later . . . my wife is calling me to supper.
Jan 20, 2013 18:05 Report Abuse
Oh, don't I hate the response "if you don't like it go someplace else." This is an incredibly naive statement. Life is not as simple as this response seems to suggest. For most of us, our lives are a complex web of relationships, demands, and plans that do not allow us to simple "leave" if we "don't like something." And would anything ever get changed if we did that. The Chinese people who say this are completely forgetting that every foreigner who is in China is here beause of the stated desire of the Chinese to "open up and learn from the West." I and every foreigner here in China have come here because you,the Chinese people, want to learn from us. The problem is you don't really want to learn, or you want to learn in your own, Chinese way. But that is not so very odd. The biggest human fear, and one that we all have - don't deny it, is that we are afraid to get what we want, because in order to get what we want we have to get what we want and to get what we want we will have to give up something we have. In order for China to change China must become less Chinese - and that will happen as more foreigners come to China. Just as English became less British, as people from around the world began to speak the language, and just as English will become more Chinese as more Chinese speak English, China will become less Chinese as more foreigners come to China and take an active, stake-holders role in what happens here. No matter how you wish to look at. China must fit into the world, not the other way around. So-called Chinese thinking must learn to place itself within general human thinking. It is impossible for all the thinking of human kind to fit into one culture, such as Chinese, or American, or Frence culture. This is one reason why English does make the best form of international communication becauses English removes culture. English removes culture just as the Concept of Law removes culture. But the Chinese don't want to remove Chinese culture. In essence they want their cake and they want to eat it too. But that is perfectly normal and is the same process every other society went through. Think of this . . . if I go to my brother's home he doesn't have to tell me to take off my shoes at the door, because I come from the same family/culture as he does. But if a person from a strange culture comes to my brother's home he will have to explain the rules to them. This is the situation China faces. And it is simply counter-productive and contradictory for Chinese people, or foreigners, to suggest that foreigners should follow Chinese culture. When you come to my country, you do not have to follow my culture, you can if you like . . . but what you MUST do is follow the law. Think of this. Here in China, drivers must pass very nearly the same driving test as we do in America, Canada, Britain . . . but then when they head out onto the streets snd roads they have to follow the culture and if they don't the police will scream at the them. When I drive in China I have to follow the culture, not the actual driving laws. But back to my point. Please stop saying, "if you don't like it leave." This kind of commet is made by people who are feeling very political, or are vaery naive, or both. This is not what you bst Chinese leaders want. The very best thinkers here in China, are doing everything they can to develope the rule of law; they are doing everything they can to remove the idea that Culture is more important than law. THey are creatig tax laws and other laws so that foreigners will feel that China is their country too. So, if all us foreingers simply came here and followed Chinese culture we would not be doing what the best Chinese thinkers want us to do. And if we all left just because we didn't like something we would not be true to the invitation that brought us here in the first place. We are invited here to help China develop. Our first responsibility is to the Chinese people, not the the employers who sponsor us. Yes, everything is changing queckly in China. When I first came here in every foreigners contracthidden inthe Chinese version) was a clause that stated the foreign worker "would not do anything which would embarrass the Chinese people." Think of that. Think of how impossible that is. And think of this. When a person insists that I act in a certain way I aways know that they are, at the same time, telling me what their weakness is. The Chinse people are easily embarrassed and they do not like to be directly confronted with problems . . . and there is a simple reason for this . . . in China, Chinese culture is more important than logic . . . thus, when a foreigner confronts a problem and explains themselves logically, many Chinese will be embarrassed because even though they may see the logic their hands are tied by those twin concept which are placed higher than logic and Law - the twin concepts of Chinese Culture and Communism. I certainly am not supporting the foreigner who scratched the cars. As I said previously, we often use culture as an excuse to be un-cultured. This is often the way Chinese defend poor public behavior. But the guy who scratched the cars was also using his culture as an excuse for being uncultured.
Jan 20, 2013 17:52 Report Abuse
Which part of "NO" more verbal diarreah you guys not understand? The "N" or the "O" part??? If you wish to write long stuff we don't read on non subject matter, could you please do elsewhere? Hope you have gooda wife and she give you good supper!
Jan 20, 2013 18:05 Report Abuse
Back to a couple of points that have been made. First of all. Communism, in its purest form, does not include the concept of Law. Cmmunism places other precepts in a primary position. Communism does not recognize the 'liberation of the mind' that is at the root of the concept Law. As I said earleir, imagine a triangle, a normal triangle. This is the way power 'moved' in all societies three hundred, four hundred years ago - with the King or Queen at the top and everyone else at different levels below this. But, in the West, in many countries, when we removed the king, we turned the trianle upside down through a process called the liberation of the mind. This process did not occur in Communist countries. It is beginning to occur in China and Russa today, but it is not occuring in the same natural way that the process unfolded in the West. In China, the still Communist leaders are trying to construct this sort of free-thinking attituded all the while holding onto power - in essence they are trying to change without changing (more on that later). BUt, back to the idea of Law . . . and here it is important to remember the difference between Law and laws, or legal system. Any country that accepts the rule of Law, that accept the concept of Law, accepts that all human conditions, even those not yet imagined, are governed by the rule of law . . . so, even if a human condition/situation has not yet been imagined, the fact that a society accepts the rule of Law means that when that particler, as yet unimagined, human condition final occurs the Law has already made a statement about that condition,even if the law is not yet written. Simply by accepting the Rule of Law a soceity accepts that, without condition, the Law has ssomething to say about everything. By this standard, China has not accepted the rule of Law.They are trying . . but China, its leaders, find themselve in a Challenging position, how to allow growth of the imaginatio and liberty of mind which is required in a sopciety that accepts the rule of law, that same imagination that helps grow technology, art, and real culture, while holding onto control over the thoughts and actions of the people. This contradictory postion, here in CHina, is the primary reason why we always here about "Cpaitalism with CHinese Characteistics", or Free-Market with Chinese Characteristics, or this or that with Chinese characteristics . . . and as a result we see, LOL, 'side walks with Chinese characteristics, or driving with Chinese characteristics. Sidewalks are an idea that does not work in most Chinese cities. Chines cities were not designed for cars, because it was the invention of car that created the design of the modern city - more on that later, if yu like. But back to theLaw. The Law is based on Five words, that's right, five words and those are: "IS, NOT, NECESSARY, PERMITTED, and REQUIRED. Every law in every land that accepts the rule of law, can be boiled down to a statement which can be logically contained by those five words. For example: "murder, is not reguired, necessary, or permitted"; driving is permited but not necessarily required." Remember that part of the American Justice System, the pat that says Justice is blind? No Justice is not blind. The law is blind, and this is what I mean. Yes, "driving is permitted but not necessarily required." However, if, in America, in the course of his/her duty, a police officer faced with an emergency asks you to drive a car, you will be breaking the law if you do not drive the car, even if you do not have a license. IN most countries, yes, "murder is not permitted, necessary, or required." Now, on the surface, it may seem strange that the law says, "murder is not required." But think about Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, murde of the Jewish population was required. The people who killed the Jews, were acting according to German Law. This is why, at the Nureberg Trails, after World War One,only a few people were punished for the mass murder of the Jewish People; at the Nuremburg Trial an international court, a Law, higher than the German Law determined that the German Law was not legal. Now, does the law in Canada, or Maerica, or Britain, really say that Murder is not permitted . . . no, there is no written Law. BUt that is not how Law works. Law is a concept. Individual laws are written in the legal system. So, no the legal system does not contain a law that states "murder is not required." But the Canadian, American, British, French, German, etc, Concepts of Law most certainly do contain the statement "Murder is not Required. In the Iraq of Sudam Hussein, murder was required - that is why only a few Iraqi People have been held accountable. TO grasp this it is important to remember the difference between (big "L") Law and (small "l") laws, which are written in a countries legal system. Now, earlier I said that CHina, has very nearly the same laws as we do in the West. But China does not support the same concept of Law. And that is because China applies its law wth the MOdal value "Should" and does not apply its laws with the mdal value "Must". However, if Law is applied using the modal value "should" it is not Law, but only a group of suggestion about how society should function. And ifyou think for a moment you will see that this is exactly what we have in China. We have a system of gonernment that uses communist or socialist or Marxist ideals so as to SUGGEST how a perfect society 'should work. CHina does not support a system of laws that demands how people and organizations, including the government, "must" act. This is why everything is open for negotiatin in China and this is why a police officer will act as police, judge, and jury. This is why drivers will debate with a police officer when they are stopped. This is why, in CHina, if you find yourself in court, even as the victim of a crime you may very find that the judge questions why it is that you could not negotiate some sort of settlement with the person who victimized you. Is this different than in the West. As I mentioned earlier, always remember that CHina has exactly the same conditions and difficulties that we do in the West - i is merely the balance and the degree that is different. In the West, negotiation and plea-bargaining are well established methods of avoiding court appearances. But back to China, and the Law. In China, decisions about rightfullness are made according to what result best supports the ideals of communism, socialism, or Marxism. In China, both, Chinese Culture ( PLEASE NOT, not all cultures, just Chinese Culture - an not even all Chinese Culture but primarily Han Chinese Culture), and Communism are placed in a higher position than he concept of Law. But in America, so-called WASP Culture (WHITE, ANGLOSAXON, PROTESTANT culture)governs most aspect os society. Yes, here in CHina, things are changing. But there is an inherent contradiction within the Chinese circumstance of change, a contradiction that is being played out every day on the streest of China. ChHina wants to be modern but it also wants to remain Chinese. More on that later.
Jan 20, 2013 17:10 Report Abuse
Why you try to lecture everyone??? Please no "more on that later". We can not stand such verbal diarreah!
Jan 20, 2013 17:32 Report Abuse
Hmmm, when I read comments on issues such as this one, on any issue really, I am always amazed at how far we get from the simple points. I suppose that is natural here on line. When I was a kid I thought that the internet would solve everything, that we would no longer be able to hide from the truth. But the reality of online communities has not matched the ideal I envisioned. And there is a simple, primary reason for this. When people communicate online, most regularly, they are not seeking to express or discover any sort of truth. Most people, when they communicate online are actually 'Uploading Identity', more interested in creating an identity for themselves, seeing themsevles through the eyes of others - and this has created a very confrontational environment. This 'uploading identity' is different than the way identity was created in the not so distant past - and, "downloading identity" still occurs today. What do I mean by "downloading identity"? Well, it is very simply, I mean th normal way most of use receive our identity. Most people 'receive' their identity from their parents, from frieds and peers, from the failures and successes n their life, from their education, from books and movies, from leaders and teachers - I call that downloaded identity. But today we are all free to upload any identity we choose, create ourselves in any form we like, here on the internet.
Jan 20, 2013 16:44 Report Abuse
Heading of this article is "Dalian Foreigner in Rock Rage at Cars Blocking Sidewalk" This serious for some of us in dalian... what does this other stuff have to do with it? If you have identity problem, there are professional who may be able to help you.
Jan 20, 2013 17:26 Report Abuse
Starting off I am not agreeing with what the guy did, but from the younger foreigners (and locals) in China that I know (including myself), he did what we all wish we could do to some level. I must admit I got a thrill from hearing about this incident. Furthermore it’s not just foreigners that are thinking this, we are just more vocal and don’t hid and create dummy accounts and use TOR to not get caught. It’s people in general that want to do something when they can’t and a little piece of them is glad that someone did the taboo, especially Chinese. Look that the ‘netizens’ and the turnaround of political corruption in the past year. I personally just try to ignore the things I don’t like; unless a motorbike almost hits me. Whereas I know people who yell at cars that almost everyday and they are not just foreigners too. I travel quite extensively between Dalian and Shanghai from where I am located in China and the situation is much worse in Shanghai; but it’s significantly larger obviously. I think that this story is funny because if it were a Chinese person it wouldn’t have made the news. You hear about Chinese people burning factories, destroying/vandalizing the ‘Japanese Street’ in Suzhou, looting Rolex because it looks like the a foreign insignia, and while foreigners are horrified, there is little reaction to the Chinese majority on these actions. (I am unbiased about the ‘Island Debate’) I think that Chinese also need to realize that the ‘world is flat’ and that the world is functioning more and more with less borders. Yes, I agree, this is China and it is your country. If you don’t like it you can ignore it or leave it; I do the first obviously and deal with the rest like most people living here do. Yes, there are a lot of foreigners in China, but look at how fast your country has grown since it opened up its borders. I am not a hippy that is all, lets sing songs and hold hands. If you look at the world, there are many more Chinese living abroad than foreigners living in China. So check yourselves before you say something unintelligent. I agree that the blatant disregard for the law enforcement ignoring violations nonstop is a cause for these vigilantes to make a stand; I don’t necessarily agree with this though. This is my home for now and I wish that there would be improvements, but at the same time I don’t want China to be a country like the USA where you see a police office and you feel like you did something wrong. Yet at the same time police are almost useless in most scenarios in China. There needs to be a balance and the citizens of China need to take responsibility for their own actions; being lazing and parking in the middle of the street, parking on a sidewalk, standing in from of an escalator in the metro… ect. (Some kind of checks and balances that doesn’t exist yet, but SLOWLY, is happening; maybe in 100 years.) China is too complex and has too many long hereditary traits ingrained its people for me to be able to argue that this or that should be done. They are adapting fast and I don’t see ‘car violation/traffic’ issues being solved within my lifetime. This guy shouldn’t have damaged personal property, but leaving a note isn’t going to do anything as well. I have never met this guy and the guy who is attacking him behind a generic ‘visitor’ name should grow some balls and not hide when attacking someone; they are Chinese probably though. No, it’s not cool to hit on someone’s girlfriend/wife, ever, even more so when they are already married. But you made a pathetic argument against him. If you wanted to argue that he’s a weirdo, you should have put something that says he’s anti China, which I am not, or something to make your point of why people shouldn’t agree with him. MeiMei, no comments. You’re a waste of my time and I disagree with you on everything. I don’t understand why it’s Chinese vs. Foreigners? As I mentioned before Chinese are not so different in their thoughts, they are just quieter about it/are more used to it. The commentators that are saying get out of China if you can’t handle it are the problem. In the end, he did what a lot of people were thinking (Chinese and not) and probably did the ‘old handshake’ and nothing will come of it. If what he did causes more people, not just foreigners mind you (we are quite few in scale) to act out against injustice with people not obeying laws, than maybe this is a good thing. Hopefully in the near future people will take their own social and legal responsibility in their own hands so people will not have to become vigilantes. Only time will tell; or not.
Jan 20, 2013 00:34 Report Abuse
Have just come back from a Sunday Coffee run by other expatriates here in Dalian. All friends there, Chinese and people from a number of different countries. This thing no a race issue, everyone agree, its about bad people and bad is bad no matter what country you in or come from. Everyone have story about Mr Hale, Mr Murphy and old Canada guy. Foreigners at the coffee wish they all go home as they setting bad view for Chinese people against all foreigners and the foreigners at this coffee scared of this. The other Chinese girls there have other stories to tell of these dirty men. Everyone hope law will act against them so we all safe here in Dalian.
Jan 20, 2013 14:41 Report Abuse
Ive met said person in question. Meimei is 100% correct and anyone whom is foolish to defend him is not seeing a bigger picture. Fact, two wrongs do not make a right. Fact, a crime is a crime, even if the intent of one crime is meant well. Fact, in this country, noone wants to be told how to do their thing and it isn't an outsider's right, nomatter how some feel frustrated. Fact, if you don't like it, why be here? If you need to be here, accept what is and stop complaining and defending this guy. For those whom have no idea about whom he is, a little background. He was terminated from his job a few years back for inappropriate behavior. He is married but seems estranged. He is very inappropriate at social functions, even going as far as to hit on the wives or girlfriends of other members. He has almost had his head handed to him several times for this. If anyone is not with him, he threatens them with anything from banishment of his website/community or worse. This guy is bad news and really you guys should think before saying anything favorable.
Jan 19, 2013 16:32 Report Abuse
"Fact, a crime is a crime, even if the intent of one crime is meant well." -- I don't think you really noticed, that other writers were saying this same thing. No one is defending him: the bigger picture is about justice. And how can you agree with MeiMei who constantly refers to this guy as a foreigner and such forigners are not needed in China. If you really believe that crime is crime then what is the point of talking about him as a foreigner or discussing his personal life. That is why it is proper to ignore the details of this man's life and understand how he, the drivers who parked the cars illegally and the people seeking revenge against the man are all victims of the same bigger problem. You are getting cofused just because you don't like this man. No one is defending him and perhaps he is a terrible man. But maybe, if we knew the people who were illegally parking their cars we would find out that they were at the restaurant doing a drug deal or planning to rob a bank. But none of that would change the essential points of the article. The article above deal with a justice problem. Sure, if you want to talk about the man, personal life because you know him and dislike him. Fine . . . but go away and leave other people alone
Feb 07, 2013 13:11 Report Abuse
"Fact, in this country, noone wants to be told how to do their thing and it isn't an outsider's right, nomatter how some feel frustrated." -- But if you had good strong laws, no one wouldn't matter if "none wanted to be told what to do. They would have to follow the law, even if they didn't want to. And if they followed the law, others wouldn't want sooften to tell them what to do, or seek revenge when they didn't follow the law. But this doesn't include the man in the article because he broke the law. He wasn't telling anyone what to do. He broke the law.
Feb 07, 2013 13:12 Report Abuse
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